After the end of play yesterday, a package arrived with one of the French WWII aircraft contained therein, that I'd ordered as part of my current plans for a Fall Rot French force. Trying to find aircraft in suitable scales to go with my 10mm figures is always tricky, especially if you are going outside the standard ones such as the Spitfire, the Me-109 etc.
This got me to thinking of how over the years I've changed my attitude with regards to aircraft, but also to buildings. When I first got back into historical wargaming, everything had to be in 15mm/1:100, as that's what was standard at the club back then, or ditto with 28mm skirmish level games. The latter was always a bit of a challenge, as the buildings had to be huge to accomodate even just a section of figures!
As I moved heavily towards 10mm/1:150th (or 1:144th depending upon manufacturer), I stick with the same scale for the buildings are aircraft too, as that's what I was used to. But then I saw my friend Keith's SYW games (and others online), where he went a scale down for his buildings, so 1:72nd with his 28mm figures, and they just worked. Thus began my journey to do the same, using 6mm/1:300th buildings, which worked a treat. No more cases of just a few buildings representing a town or a village, but in the same footprint I could probably double their number and get that right visual look.
As I began to look at my airforces for my BKCII games, I slowly went in the opposite direction, moving a scale up, generally trying to go with 15mm/1:100 scale planes, which worked a treat. I worked on the assumption that of course they would be closer to us with our God's eye view and so would give the impression of being at height over the games table.
Availability of models is somewhat limited as mentioned above, so I've had to generally go with what I can find, this I have 1:144th Zvezda kits, 1:100 diecast planes and lately a couple of 1:72nd ones too. There is of course the issue of storage for these, as whilst a 1:44th scale bomber is still pretty big, at least I can store it easily, but a 1:100 or even 1:72nd would be a challenge!
But mixing scales on the games table certainly works for the sort of games I play, and that trompe l'oeil effect that it creates does add greater depth and dare I say it, a more realistic look to the game?
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| My latest purchase on the right, a 1:72nd MS. 406 French fighter, next to some 1:100th diecast aircraft. Seen like this the scale difference is marked. |
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| But when on the games table, the trompe l'oeil effect really kicks in, with the different scales not really noticeable, but the illusion of depth is created. |
What Next?
Well with the Met Office forecast for at least another month of wet weather, there will be precious little time spend outside, unless it warms up a bit, that's for sure! The games room has been cleared up so with luck, some painting might kick off later today. It's also the annual Pendraken painting competition, so I might try my hand at an entry of two, but i'm not pressurising myself to do this, unlike in previous years. It is after all a hobby!
Thanks for reading and hopefully this might have given some of you food for thought? As always thoughts and comments greatly appreciated!
TTFN.
For me, building scale is a direct result of BMU footprint and figure-to-man ratio. My 15mm horse & musket armies, fighting large battles, see 6mm buildings, villages, and towns on the table. Only skirmish-type games see figures and buildings in the same scale. “Trompe l'oeil” is a new French phrase for me. Thanks for enlightenment.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the insight how you go about your games Jon:). One reason I have my buildings on scenic bases, is that they can be removed to accomodate troops, depending upon the era being played and the rules being used. I suppose I know 'trompe l'oeil' due to my art & design background, where the term is widely used.
DeleteNeither I nor the group I play with really use this concept...maybe because we generally play on pretty large tables and have more room for buildings than the average 6 by 4? The only exception would be aircraft, and we went the opposite way, adopting the FoW concept of aircraft being smaller...ie 1/144 planes with 15mm ground forces.
ReplyDeleteSpace in all its forms can be a big driving factor in which way we go. It certainly has affected how i've looked at my gaming these past 20 years or so. We did likewise when we played FoW and BKCII in 15mm, but moving to 10mm and the advent of ease of shopping via ebay et al, meant it was easier to find stuff than the dawn of the internet.
DeleteI tend to take the same approach with buildings, dropping them down one scale from the figures. This deceives the eye quite nicely. The mixed approach for aircraft does seem to work from your photos.
ReplyDeleteMany years ago I made an 'accurate' 1:144th scale building for Pendraken, but it just looked 'wrong', even though it was 'right' if you see what I mean. The 6mm buildings just work, as yu really don't notice the 'Z' height difference, not the footprint etc. It's only when you put a tank right next to one that it becomes apparent, but not too much if I'm honest.
DeleteThe aircraft look great, as does your action photography. ‘It is after all a hobby!’ - words of the wise :-)
ReplyDeleteI loved the camo scheme, which was the main reason that I bought it, plus of course the MS. 406 was used for strafing runs etc. I did have fun posing the shot, which took me back to this teenage years where we spent more time making mini-dioramas than actually playing games!
DeleteWise words indeed from a good friend and ones that we should always bear in mind!
Like you Steve I also go with 6mm - 1/300 scale buildings with 10mm miniatures. I acknowledge they do, however, look rather too small with 15mm minis - but I’ve never been willing to shell out more ££ on yet more buildings.
ReplyDeleteYour aircraft look nice. I don’t have very many aircraft, but generally go smaller. My thinking is that although the Omnipotent Commander (me 😉) looks down at the battlefield on the tabletop in front of me, I rationalise that - from the perspective of the soldiers on the ground - those aircraft flying in the sky above them look rather small/are quite some distance away.
“Horses for courses” though - just go with whatever works for you. It’s your hobby 😉
Cheers,
Geoff
'Horse for courses' indeed Geoff:)! I did invest in a load 6mm planes a year or so ago for a similar reason to your goodself, but they just didn't have that visual impact I was after. Also trying to paint them, but especially applying the decals with my very shaky hand, pushed me towards the larger aircraft, either pre-painted plastic or diecast ones.
DeleteLike you Steve, I scale down buildings against the figures. It's far more pleasing that a town or village looks like one rather than just a single structure.
ReplyDeleteIt's getting that look of a village with enough houses in it that it just looks the part. As with many things within gaming, it's always a bit of a compromise, so just go with what works for you:)!
DeleteThe photos are indeed effective. I love the way our hobby gives so may different ways to approach it [is the number infinite]. Having a 6x4 restricts the kind of games I have but that's because I'm completely [well almost] to 28mm as it's the look of the uniforms/clothing I'm after.
ReplyDeleteI have just one plane for my 1939 Polish and it like them is 1/72nd. The Poles are largely unused for want of an opponent - the last time I saw any Germans was probably 20 years ago - they might as well be extinct.
Stephen
You are completely correct in that our wonderful hobby is so mulitfaceted, that we can enjoy it on many levels and no matter the weather! A big bonus on the latter point given the dire weather we've had this year.
DeleteI remember a comment by Rick Priestley many years ago in the a typical club 28mm game looks more like a school trip than an actual battle, which has stuck in my mind to this day. But then you can just enjoy the spectacle of all those wonderfully detailed and painted figures, that you don't get with the smaller scales for sure. So for your goodself 28mm ticks sooo many boxes, why would you change:)?!
Shame you can't find an opponent for your Poles to play against, but unless you play solo games like me, you're wait might continue, but fingers crossed they can get their moment in the sun.
Interesting topic Steve and proof that I’m very linear in my thinking. I can see the advantages in your approach (which are many) but for some reason I just can’t go there. Not only is my lack of flexibility / imagination quite restrictive in terms of the variety of what’s available but it’s also costly. I’ve recently spent more on a single building than an entire 6mm army collected back in the day (even though the monthly hobby spending pot hasn’t grown appreciably in the last five years). I have a reasonable 10mm Pendraken AWI collection and I was thinking of replicating it in 28mm (over time). Though I may still end up going there, your post has given me pause for thought. Add to the 10mm lads or start again? Mmmm. Loving the MS406 by the way.
ReplyDeleteFor your current 28mm games, then you do need those slightly oversized buildings for them to look right and also to accomodate enough figures. Again a case for going slightly larger for skirmish level games, which I think the MDF buildings have done over the years.
DeleteI think it's been easy for me since I went fully 10mm, as all of my games are really a reinforced Battalion level for WWII, or a few Brigades per side for say the Black Powder era. So the terrain and the buildings work perfectly for this. However if I played more of say Dan Mersey's 'Rampant' stable games, then I would probably go to 10mm buildings so they look right in the scenarios.
For the AWI, I reckon with your current rules being played and these sort of games, 28mm would probably make the most sense, unless of course you fancy going bigger battles in due course. Food for thought for sure!
And yep, that MS. 406 is a cracking plane due to that wonderful camo scheme. Knowing that the Armee d'Air (?) put up a good fight during Fall Rot, it's nice to know that these new planes can get some good time over the table in due course:).
Lovely planes that mix well on the table. I shrink down but try and increase the height and make tge doors look something like the right size? Im also trying to do a whole built up area often, for ww2 skirmish ie bolt action, I still try and shrink it a bit,just to help?
ReplyDeleteBest Iain
Good to see how you've approached things Iain:)! Certainly with ruined buildings there's quite a bit of leeway in terms of size, but as you say, as long as it looks right, that's all that matters.
DeleteKeep (toy-) soldiering on, Steve 🙂👍🏼. The weather WILL improve 😎👍🏼.
ReplyDelete+ Scale mix works really well in your pics, inc the excellent last batrep. (I have no qualms about using 6mm terrain with 15mm figures - preferring the better representation of a village to an ‘accurate’ single house of the correct scale on the same footprint)
Thanks Martin and today it has actually felt like we are almost in Spring:)! Real life elsewhere severely impacting gaming related activities, other than reading, but I do have another game roughed out, so not all bad. The representation of the village is what matters to me too.
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